23 Aug 2021 15:39:28
I haven't posted on here for a couple of seasons but checked in from time to time. Can't say I agree with most of the things being posted about the team, the players and the coaching so thought I would add a voice as a counterpoint.

I think the club has carried out some very positive transfer business over the summer, investing in young players with noted talent that will help to strengthen the U23s as well as challenge for first team places. If the club's model is to buy young and sell for a profit, then this is the first summer in a very long time I remember it being carried out so strongly.

As far as this season goes, we may be a player or two light to allow us to kick on, but I find it hard to believe some posters can't think of 3 teams who are likely to be worse off than us this season. Surely that's something to consider 15 games into the season rather than before a ball has been kicked.

On that note, a realist is someone who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with is accordingly. A pessimist is someone who tends to see the worst aspect of something or believe the worst will happen. Posting that Saints are the worst team in the Premier League before a ball has been kicked is not the action of a realist.

The second half performance against Everton was disappointing, but that was on the back of a solid first half where we had taken the lead. We had posed one of football's great tactical minds a problem and he found a (admittedly simple) solution. RH should have made substitutions earlier and given Everton's dominance of the second half, could have switched the formation a little sooner. But with the first game of the season, I think its fair that the manager and the players are afforded some time to find their footing.

Yesterday's performance was a good response not only to concerns raised by last week, but also to the lingering doubts around the club following a poor campaign last time around.

The players were hard working and energetic throughout. RH did not hesitate to change things at half time to address the possibility of the second half malaise that we saw last week and so often last season. We were growing in the game at the end of the first half so to make the change then was bold.

That formation change also proved vital in the progress we made in the second half. United had lengthy spells of dominance in the first half as their 4-2-3-1 formation was well suited in creating attacking midfield overloads vs our 4-2-2-2 and so they picked their way through us a little to easily at times. With a 3-5-2 we matched their midfield numbers and attacked Utd at their weakest spot. This allowed us to wrestle back some control and with the best chance of the second half falling to Armstrong, we were unlucky not to win.

The one slight niggle for me was moving Djneppo into the middle as an attacking midfielder. He's not consistent enough with the ball to have that role around a snapping defensive midfield duo like Utd's and so we struggled until Diallo replaced him. The formation change was wobbly at the start of the second half and this of course is when Utd equalised.

After that, with an orthodox central midfielder on, Diallo and Ward-Prowse were able to push on and leave Romeu to sit at times, forcing our play further up the pitch and engaging with their slower, weaker players much quicker. We caused them more problems because the overloads were no longer available in midfield and they had to work harder to retain possession and pass through our lines. Had Armstong scored, it would have been the perfect turnaround. As it is, we should all be as quick to celebrate RH's tactical calls and subs when he gets them right, as when we disagree with them.

A word on Djneppo too. I'm not his biggest fan as he seems to be a player not always in complete control of the ball or his legs and he also lacks any idea of the end product he is looking to deliver before he does it. Its a more instinctive thing with him, whereby he gets the ball and then tries to beat the defender ahead of him and then kick the ball in the general direction of the area without having looked up to see who is in there and where they are. But, he has a lot of energy and he is a determined player. His relationship with Perraud has been a highlight for me and whilst he hasn't always got things right in the first 2 games, his defensive support yesterday was crucial and noteworthy. Whenever Greenwood or Wan-Bissaka attacked down our left flank, Djneppo always came charging back to help out.

So, a great point against a side that will likely challenge for the title this season (though I suspect it will end up elsewhere) . Plus, a draw has been all too rare a thing in RH's tenure. The team's risky play has quite an all or nothing result output, so its nice to see the team finding a way not too lose a game when they weren't, in the end, able to win. If we can convert a good number of our loss column figures into the draw column this season, we should end up comfortably mid-table. Fingers crossed.


1.) 23 Aug 2021
23 Aug 2021 22:12:25
Well said elfigo.

A well written and eloquent post.

Thank you.


2.) 23 Aug 2021
23 Aug 2021 23:00:52
Saints supporters (and probably fans from all teams) seem to get upset, annoyed, irritated at anyone daring to criticise their beloved team. Why? It doesn’t make us any less of a supporter! I was there at the 76 cup final, I was there watching the McMenemy era, I flew back from working in Germany to see them play Forest at Wembley.
Enough of that .
Bottom line is they have plates some awful football over the last few years. We’ve had some awful managers too!
We’ve bought some very average players, we’ve bought players like Osvaldo, Boufal, Lemina.

When Ralph came to us, we were all excited, he had a good reputation, some in the game were surprised we managed to attract him.

But reality is his learning curve has been downwards rather than upwards. Bizarre team selection, bizarre substitutions, playing players out of position, players on form being dropped, sticking to 4 2 2 2, very rarely changing tactics to counteract changes by the opponents, not picking the best players, playing Redmond regardless of form, playing Walcott and Djenepo regardless of what they bring to the team… playing stephens ahead of Bednerek.
You can say all you like about only being two games in, but the Everton game typified everything wrong with Ralph. It showed he had learnt nothing. his team selection against Everton was bizarre. From the 46th minute we were outplayed and holding on. Everton winning was a predictable formality . and they duly won.

The unbelievable statistic that since December 2018 is Ralph joins us, we have lost 60 points . SIXTY points from winning positions! That’s not just an odd game here and there, that’s absolutely terrible and Everton showed his learning curve was pointing straight down.

So along comes Man Utd. Unbelievably he picks the same team as were overrun by Everton!
Was Ralph writing his epitaph?

Well, well . almost like he knew his days were up, his stubbornness washed away, he made substitutions that mattered, he changed formation, he tweeted the team …
So yes we have had every right to criticise Saints, especially Ralph who has gone near on three years and dozens of points thrown away, to finally make changes that were good!
Fingers crossed it’s a new Ralph!


3.) 23 Aug 2021
23 Aug 2021 23:03:21
I will add a comment about Djenepo. Yes he works hard, chases around . but his contribution to the attacking phase of the game is absolutely abysmal.
Saints are lacking that midfield contribution that will enable us to score more goals. This is not going to come from Djenepo, Redmond and Walcott ….


4.) 24 Aug 2021
24 Aug 2021 11:48:59
I'm not saying you don't have a right to be frustrated with the team performances, the manager and his line-ups/ tactics/ substitutions, the performances of ex-players, former managers and our transfer policy in recent or distant seasons. The owner and his inability or unwillingness to invest more in the playing side. Nor am I saying that if you hold any such frustration you are a lesser fan or no fan of the team at all.

My point is that if all anyone does is come onto this site to post their frustrations, without any balance, then what benefit does it offer? If everyone agrees or amplifies the negative view of the club then you come on here, get angry and stay angry. Then you can't even really enjoy a positive result like the one at weekend because its always tainted with a view of RH's tactics like 'Well, well. Almost like he knew his days were up'. There's no foundation in truth or reality in that comment. Its simply made to justify to yourself that what you've said before isn't wrong. The club have backed RH and continue to support him whole-heartedly. They are not about to sack him any time soon.

RH has been in charge for 2 full seasons having saved us from the relegation zone in the 2018/ 19 season. Both seasons have been hampered by C.V. in some way shape or form. In the 2019/ 20 season we finished 11th with WDL numbers of 15, 7 and 6 respectively and 52 points. In the 20/ 21 season we finished 15th with WDL of 12, 7, and 19. That first season felt great because we were close to the top 10 and finished so strongly. Last season felt sour because for 2/ 3s of the season we were poor. But when you stop and look at the two season's results, it was a 3 game swing. The difference between that positive feeling and such a negative one from one season end to the other was 3 games, or 9 points. How many close games did we have last season where we were unlucky not to nick a draw or even a win? We could all probably think of two or three. And there it is. That's the difference.

I think the biggest hurdle RH has to get over is to find a way to make the team harder to beat. As I said before, if we can take more of those losses and turn them just into draws, we add points and confidence. Sunday was a great example to show that we can do it because RH saw a problem, despite us leading at half time and took steps to correct it. As a result, we wrestled back enough control in the game to create more chances in the second half including the game's best which should have been scored.

Our 4-2-2-2 system is useful against 4-3-3 sides because we can create overloads in the midfield that allow us to press and win the ball higher up the pitch and then we have the numbers to fill the box. But its high risk and the flip side is that teams playing direct or with fluidity in their lines find a way through and if our defensive set up is faced with a quick counter, we're in trouble. That's why we are a team that generally wins or loses, draws being a rarity. In our recent past we've had managers that have made us tough to beat at times and who earned a lot of draws and pinched wins here or there, but the football was slow and tepid and frankly dull. We've also had managers who failed to make us both tough to beat and also couldn't win enough games. At least we have one now that has us playing, for the most part, positive and entertaining football.

Today, we've signed another incredibly talented and exciting prospect in Thierry Small. We are getting some of the countries hottest talents to finally choose to come to us as they see the strength of our pathway into the first team. Before, there was much talk of the pathway but the focus was on the youth players we were developing. Over the last few years, its been apparent that we don't have any gems at the moment, knocking on the door. So to see us focus on rebuilding the B team and youth sides with such exciting talent can only bode well for the future of the club and the first team. We have to be prepared for the fact that these guys are likely to come in and, if they make an instant impact like Livramento looks like he's going to, they're not likely to be with us very long so we'll enjoy them while they're here, look forward to where they could help lift our team and look forward to seeing how the club invest the profits from selling them on when they leave. That's how a club of our size find longevity in the Premier League.

So there is much to be positive about looking forward to this season and beyond. Yes there are issues and if this season is anything like the last two, we will lose as many games as we win (hopefully not too more) . But, there is also the prospect of exciting new talent coming in and making an impact, a manager showing signs of flexibility in order to wrestle back control of games slipping away and all this while some of our best players from last season are still to return following injury and fitness setbacks. That's why I feel pre-season expectations of relegation in 20th position in the league are premature.

I look forward to debating the club's performance as the season continues.


5.) 24 Aug 2021
24 Aug 2021 12:44:11
On a positive note the new signings and loans are all exceptional. Tino is superb and I mistakenly thought he was on loan, hadn’t realised we bought him!

I think the problem for myself and many, many fans, is that Ralph appears not have learnt much in two seasons.
Surely the second half against Everton you must have been thinking, we need to make a change, any change.
They made some subtle changes and that was it, the inevitable loss was on the cards. The problem is that when you have been watching Ralph’s team, every game, you know he won’t make changes, his substitutions are late and often add nothing to the pattern of play.

It was a great change to see the changes he made against Utd. Tella changed the midfield dynamics completely, moving the ball around

Reality is, unless Ralph utilises the players he has tactically and correctly, it doesn’t matter who we sign.
The board, C.V. can be blamed for many things, but not the very poor learning curve of Ralph.

I am guessing you may have some connection to the club?
Because someone I spoke to from
The club on Friday felt No one seems to want to stand up to Ralph …….
I do believe Ralph is walking a fine tightrope .
Throwing away 60 points in under 3 seasons is not the odd game here and there where he’s got things wrong, it’s disastrous!

Redmond, Walcott and Djenepo break up more of our attacks than the opponents. Counter pressing game works great if when you get the ball you keep it.
We can’t keep it then get hit on the break …

That has to change.


6.) 24 Aug 2021
24 Aug 2021 16:55:27
Correction Diallo.


7.) 24 Aug 2021
24 Aug 2021 20:34:26
The problem with the so called Southampton way is that it lacks ambition - if you aim for mid table you will most likely achieve mediocrity, or worse.
The model of buying in youth cheap, developing them and selling at a profit creates a glass ceiling and means the best you can hope for is survival in PL terms.
Elfigo, your comments and views are well made and based on reason and realism but fall short on aspiration and promise. But equally, so are mine and others who are prepared to speak out. If football management was about popularly, Ralph would be top 4, but it isn’t and he’s not. He’s found wanting tactically and without recycling previous posts, a point at home to Man U, whilst laudable, changes nothing.
However, it is a pleasure to hear different views as we all hope for the same end product - it’s just that some of us have a different take on realism!


8.) 25 Aug 2021
25 Aug 2021 09:23:09
All posters on this site are both valuable and important. Following several weeks of relentless criticism concerning player positions/ lack of plan B and substitution debacles it appears an ‘about turn’ was evident to correct these shortcomings last week-end v Man Utd. Whilst most believe in Ralph’s capabilities and aspirations for the long term success it must be acknowledged that he is still serving his Premiership Apprenticeship as the man who knows it all hasn’t been born yet!


9.) 25 Aug 2021
25 Aug 2021 16:33:16
Johnnyst
Please replace ‘several weeks of relentless criticism’ with two seasons of relentless criticism.
And may I add very justified criticism!
Ralph has shown a very naive and almost shambolic approach to team selection, player positions and making changes to match tweeks by the opponent.

From living him as a manager to wanting him sacked, yes wanting him sacked. Why? Because he HAD learnt nothing from his 2+ seasons . fact

Yes he changed it against Utd and it worked …

It’s not about knowing everything, it’s about the fundamentals of football. he does not appear to be able to adjust his thinking to a level required in the PL.

So yes he has deserved every piece of criticism he has received. Yes, yes the board have not been great, but the manager has been amateurish.

As the poster above said, lovely bloke . tactically awful .


10.) 27 Aug 2021
26 Aug 2021 12:53:14
I'm not sure I agree that the transfer policy of buy young, develop and sell for a profit lacks ambition as that final 'sell' element carries an implicit 'when we must'.

While its unrealistic for a side in the lower half of the table to hold on to young, talented players with aspirations of winning League titles, European cups etc, the intention has always been to get more of those talented young players coming in to our squads, strengthening the first team and helping us kick on. Investment in talented youth provides a platform to build on each season with stability of first team performance as any players sold can be replaced by someone coming up from the B team or youth squads. With player sales (or injuries) no longer weakening the first team so gravely, we can realistically look to top 10 in the next couple of seasons if the plan continues as successfully as it has this summer. From there, we can once again challenge for domestic cups and entry in to the European competitions.

The teams that struggle in the premier league are those that have no long term transfer strategy. Spending millions of pounds on a player for today who may help in the short term but moves on to a bigger club or sustains an injury that leads to a weakening in the first team the following season as a star player is no longer there. Each summer, those clubs scrabble around looking for someone to come in and hit the ground running but good premier league players are priced at a premium. So these clubs over extend themselves to buy players another team doesn't want, or gamble on a mid-level talent from abroad hoping they can reverse the most common trend of new players needing time to adapt to the demands and nature of this league, their new club, new teammates, new coaches and manager all whilst living in a new country. Usually, the loss of the star player (s) is felt despite the new signing, the team perform worse and flirt with relegation. If they stay up, the same summer transfer fiasco begins again, only this time they have fewer players to sell or can't command the same fee for their players as they could before when they were higher up the league. Its a classic case of diminishing returns. Every season they get weaker and eventually drop out of the league.

That is the position we found ourselves in for a time. We lost sight of the investment in youth policy and had to scrabble around to plug holes in the first team due to numerous player sales. At the time we didn't have the young players ready or able to step up and maintain the same level of performance as the ones being sold so the club switched its attention to filling first team positions, with little real success. Each season the team got that little bit weaker, but the youth teams were not getting stronger and the gap remained between the two.

So this transfer does not represent a lack of ambition. Quite the opposite in my view. Its ambitious as its target is to recruit the best young players we can, to boost our first team performance in the short term and stability in the long which in turn provides a platform not just for Premier League survival, but growth back into a top half team that is challenging on several fronts.

By bringing in RH to oversee this project, the club has made it clear that his role is more than that of a first team coach. We know that he has developed the tactical bible to be applied to the development and youth squads, to support a seamless progression and integration pathway to the first team, but he also has a say in transfers and is entirely on board with the approach to playing our most talented players, whatever their age.

I think we can be a little rash to judge RH and the work he is doing at the club right now. Its very difficult to take an objective view on a game by game basis if every loss is a catastrophe, every win a masterstroke. He has been a head coach since 2011, that's one season less than Graham Potter or Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. People talk about these other two managers as still learning the ropes, needing time to continue to grow and develop their philosophies and managerial skills. So we must view RH in the same light. He has made every team that he has coached better, in terms of league finish and first team performance. The same applies to us given where we were when he took over from Mark Hughes. Last season was tough, potentially the toughest of his career given the dramatic loss of form, but we need to be patient and give him the time he needs to address those issues. Jurgen Klopp has been a manager for 20 years and yet could do little to halt Liverpool's form dropping off a cliff last season. We watched him dabble with experimental line ups and substitutions (like RH) as he grappled to recover the team's performance level, but nothing really worked. And that's a manager with twice the level of experience as ours.

Its not a question of anyone being frightened to stand up to RH. His role is to help the club deliver on its footballing ambitions and the club afford him the power he needs to do that. He is here for a project, at least under contract for the next 3 years, and I'm sure the club will support him throughout that time. The stability of his role means that for club and players, existing and future signings, they know the direction of travel and the drivers behind that. I know you may be worried that the direction of travel is in a southerly direction but the club seeking stability and investing in the first team of the near future are huge positives intending to deliver a more upward trend. This summer is the first I have seen that investment in youth truly come to fruition, where we are not just signing 16 year olds who MAY develop into first team players at some point in the next 5 years, we have brought in 3 young players in TL, TS and DS who are already knocking on the first team door. Seeing them break into the first team is a great advert for other young players who will be looking to make similar moves next summer and we can hopefully get on a roll. That is one of the main reasons I feel more positive about this season and those ahead.

If RH were to leave, it would mean tearing up everything. A new manager with a new style, a new philosophy, new tactics, new views on players and a new approach to relationships. That's a whole lot of areas of potential upset and we would be starting again. As with selling players and getting in new ones, and apart from the turmoil created in team performance, with a new manager you never know until someone's in the job whether you are trading up or not. That may be a convoluted way of saying 'careful what you wish for' but when you have a role in a club like RH's, replacing him is not as simple as bringing in someone to get the first team firing. His job is more widespread and detailed than that, specifically in support of the project the club is pursuing to protect our future and stability. To cut the head off that project now makes no sense and unwarranted on the back of improved performance of the first team in his time here. Safely away from relegation in his first half season. 11th in his first full season. Bloody hell, we were top of the Premier League last November. The fall from there was a long one but with our new signings looking positive, surely we have more grounds for optimism this season.


11.) 28 Aug 2021
28 Aug 2021 01:44:19
Elfigo .
With regards to the new signings. I could not agree more, great signings, all have proved their worth…
Established youngsters with great reputations .

With regards to the rest of your very long and well written post. You seem very reluctant to criticise Ralph in any way.
It matters not whether Saints have handed Ralph the ‘Freedom of the City’ . I believe the clubs belief in him was from his early performances.

The last two seasons have been dire!

He has showed a very naive and very poor tactical awareness.
His team selection, his substitutions, his adjusting tactics when an opponent changes, have been almost non existent.
His perseverance with players who clearly are not performing regularly, is bizarre! Redmond? Djenepo and more recently Walcott. His playing Stephens ahead of bednerek?

60 points lost from winning positions? Is beyond belief!
He has learnt little, negative progression. his learning curve is pointed downwards!

You can preach Ralph and the ‘book’ as much as you like.
While the book may contain a path to a consistent way of playing, Ralph has not shown anything to convince me has the necessary skills to see the process through.

Benitez makes some subtle changes to his formation .
From that moment, the loss was inevitable! What did Ralph do? Virtually nothing! ’ Then declares we didn’t deserve to lose? Yes we did! We did nothing while they overran us!

Yes it’s a nice idea that Ralph can take us to another level via his book, but I have seen no evidence.

Let’s see what he does with these new signings…

More importantly, what will
He do when an opponent tweeks their formation.
That appears to be a chapter missing in his book.