05 Jul 2015 20:24:17
Just heard athletico didn't cancel the clause in time and saints are taking legal action.
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05 Jul 2015 22:05:24
The best bit of this debacle so far is some Spurs fans thinking we are trying to force Toby to sign for us against his will!
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05 Jul 2015 20:51:55
Does that mean that we can buy Toby at the original agreed price?
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05 Jul 2015 22:36:36
Eds? I'm not quite sure I believe this myself.
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{Ed001's Note - they didn't pay the money, it is now in dispute as to whether just indicating a desire to activate the clause is enough. Personally I think it will just end up with both sides agreeing a compromise.}
06 Jul 2015 08:11:36
Supposedly Spurs are going to try and push through their deal today, as Toby is expected for a medical. If that's true then I would have thought he is happy to join Tottenham over us, no matter what we do at this stage.
If he preferred a move to Saints, or at the least considering it, then he'd surely delay or reject the move with Spurs, until he knew whether or not we would be able to sign him for whatever the price may be.
If things get really desperate I suppose we may try to get the FA to block the deal, but that would only work if we have a genuine claim that the player's registration is now in our hands. For that to be the case Atletico must not have bought out the pre-agreement at the agreed time, automatically activating the terms we agreed with Atletico and Toby last season. That would essentially mean Toby has already signed some form of a permanent deal with Saints, hence why we would have a claim to go with the fact Atletico did not buy out the agreement between the two clubs.
Strangely, I feel less confident about this happening than I did prior to this all being announced.
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06 Jul 2015 09:07:43
I think the likeliest outcome now is that Alderweireld joins Spurs while Saints and Atletico both try and save face with some sort of "good faith" gesture - compensation, perhaps an offer to loan someone else, whatever.
It's a grubby business, but that's football for you. They should've tried to convert Alderweireld's loan into a permanent transfer over the winter, like they did with Bertrand's. You snooze, you lose. At least then, if Atletico had tried to block it, Saints would've known where they stood and not wasted so much time chasing a transfer that was never going to happen.
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06 Jul 2015 09:56:17
Whatever happens Qwertyell don't think Saints didn't try every option to get him. I don't get why there's this conceived idea by a few supporters that we just weren't doing anything to try and get him early. More than likely we couldn't.
Perhaps in the loan deal unlike with Bertrand there was no option to negotiate before the end of the season. An international loan is different to a domestic loan, I don't know the ins and outs of it, but there's surely different terms.
Koeman when asked had been saying since about January that it was difficult, that the player wanted to stay, but we would see. At this stage of things it's impossible to judge why from a Saints' perspective it was difficult. One way or another I think we'll eventually get a Les Reed interview with the answers.
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{Ed001's Note - Atletico were not going to do a deal when they felt they could earn more buying out the contract and selling him on.}
06 Jul 2015 11:49:27
I personally thing we will still get him, but will have to match Spuds offer at least.
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06 Jul 2015 12:49:51
If that's the case Somebody in Madrid is getting the sack!!
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06 Jul 2015 13:20:50
It seems to me that Toby is 'happy' to sign for either us or Spuds as he really wants Premier League football - he enjoyed his time here but has Belgian colleagues at Spurs, so it seems that he doesn't really mind who he signs for.
On the case of the loan contract we had with AM, it seems that we are only after the £1.5m being paid to us rather than us insisting and invoking the original deal to buy him at £6.8m. The 'legal threat' is that we want the £1.5m before they sell to Spurs.
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06 Jul 2015 18:09:39
Sorry, u guys are not understanding, saints are taking AM. To court for breach of contract, AM will. Not want that, so will sell at 6.85mill us agreed. Got the day wrong, predicted today, my Bad :)
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05 Jul 2015 20:02:33
As has been posted on many media websites the transfer of Toby has been thrown into confusion over the alleged mistake made by Atletico Madrid in cancelling their loan agreement in time . I am not sure what happens from here but there must be some substance in this as all betting on Toby's transfer has been withdrawn . I would therefore imagine something is occurring, however I would have thought the last thing Saints would want so close to the start of the season is some kind of long drawn out legal battle . Does anybody else have any credible information on this matter, maybe one of the in the know Eds?
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{Ed001's Note - if Atletico have not paid the money then Southampton can buy him for the price agreed, if the player wants to join you. It just means that they can't ask for more from you, but the player still gets to say yes or no to the move. I did say not so long ago that I wasn't sure if they had paid, they were obviously, as were most people, under the impression they only had to indicate that they intended to activate the clause, rather than having to pay the money in time to do so. That was certainly what I was being told, that they had indicated they wanted to activate the clause and then take the biggest bid. Now they will only be able to accept the biggest bid if Alderweireld decides he does not want to join you, if there really has been a mistake. Difficult to say as this will be an interpretation, and sometimes interpretations can get confused. This might have to go to a tribunal.}
05 Jul 2015 20:46:16
Big old twist this. Spurs fans think it's a done deal prior to this announcement. There's no way Saints would release such a thing to the press unless they had a case. Although as Ed001 highlights, Toby could well be the deciding factor in both the cost and club he still ends up signing for.
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05 Jul 2015 23:04:00
Seems to me if we can buy him for 6.8 million we could offer him a top wage to secure his services as we would be saving best part of 5 million pounds (if not a lot more) against his true value and to me that sounds like good business . I really think Toby does honestly want to come back to St. Mary's, at least I hope so . I have a feeling that this season he will turn out to be one of the PL top players as he has a lot of class about him.
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05 Jul 2015 22:46:30
Eds, can you update us as and when any further info comes in on this please? This is why I asked the question re deadlines a few weeks ago on these pages. I guess if it's true, then it will all be down to Toby and we'll find out if he was being truthful or just showing good public relations skills.
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{Ed001's Note - I expect the two clubs' lawyers will sit down and negotiate a compromise, I would not expect Saints to just use the extra money saved to offer bigger wages. Not only would it mess with the wage structure, but it would also leave relations strained with Atletico, which is never good.}
05 Jul 2015 23:20:47
Well the Faily Mirror has reported Spurs have offered a wage of 45k, which is lower than expected. Personally I think that detail is made up and that part of negotiations have happened yet.
The more I read people's comments and different articles on this the messier it becomes. He could still end up going to Spurs. But clearly Saints feel they have both a claim against Atletico and that Toby is willing to join, to go public with this.
Koeman has a press conference scheduled tomorrow prior to the first pre-season fixture on Tuesday night. Clearly he's going to be bombarded with questions about this, however it would be in the club's interest probably not to use him as their spokesperson.
I think we will have to negotiate a higher figure with Atletico, but it would seem it will be in their best interest to strike a deal with us over Spurs at this stage, if the legal claim holds true.
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05 Jul 2015 19:39:55
Just read that Athletico Madrid failed to exercise their option in the allotted time for Toby. Any truth to this? If so, what are the implications?
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